FIRA/AER (the European Rugby Federation), which
organizes competitions that might well suit Cornwall..This page contains viewpoints and opinions received prior to September 2002. In those days, this was a static page, maintained manually by the Webmaster. Luckily, things have moved on, and we now have a realtime, interactive POINTS OF VIEW FORUM.
With the emergence of the professional game and the downgrading of the County Championship, there has been much debate on the future of rugby in Cornwall. For may years, the better Cornish players have been "poached" by the bigger English clubs, and this trend has worsened in the professional era. This page reflects some of the ideas that have been suggested to preserve the game in Cornwall.
From Bill Hooper (hooperhoo4ht@supanet.com)
It would appear that Redruth's (and with it Cornwall's) chances of staging an England A International in the future have been scuppered. According to the RFU website, clubs are invited to tender for the forthcoming season's fixtures with the following criteria, quote: "What the RFU is looking for is a forward-thinking club with a level pitch in excellent condition, with appropriate facilities to stage the match, promote the event in the locality and print and distribute tickets. The crowd capacity needed is at least 8,000 for an A game, a minimum of 4,000 for the U21s, and 2,000 for U19 and Students' encounters. As fixtures are likely to be broadcast live on Sky, with highlights on BBC, the A and U21 games will require floodlighting to TV standard".
Calls have been made on this website before for a new ground to be built in Cornwall. Without it, it is very unlikely that any major fixture will be played down here again. Indeed, the nearest ground to us that fulfils the criteria is the redeveloped Plymouth Argyle ground at Home Park, Plymouth. Exeter Chiefs are looking to rebuild the County Ground at Exeter and this in the near future could fit the RFU's new criteria. So were does this leave us? With memories and yellow-paged programmes to look back on!
From George Beevor (George.Beevor@BushInternet.com)
Further to my recent comments regading alternative venues for big rugby occasions in Cornwall, one can't help but wonder if the time has come to open up the debate.
During the recent debate on the Trelawny's Army feedback page it was suggested that the CRFU should be pushing to host major events on the European scene. If we are to take on other provinces and regions from around Europe, and ultimately nations from around the globe, we must ask, do we realy have the facilities to do so?
In the shadow of Britain's first settlement, the majestic Carn Brea, the Recreation Ground, Redruth is my favourate Rugby ground in the world; there is nowhere I personaly would rather watch the gold and black. However, as it stands currently, the facilites will not appeal to the vanities and requirements of the outside sporting world.
If the team is to progress in the coming years on the lines suggested, a new stadium will need to be found. Although it would be foolishly optimistic to suggest that attendances are likely to outgrow the 7,000 capacity, I cannot, for example, see a professional sevens series, with the requirements of a dozen different professional squads squeezing into the club house year on year.
The unique atmosphere of Cornish supporters is not exclusive to the rec'; anybody who follows the County Championship side away from home will vouch for that. As the nation with more rugby players per head than any other, that Cornwall would not be considered to host matches when the World Cup is played in the 'home' nations is bordering on the ridiculous, until you ask, where?
I would not purport to have the answers to these questions, perhaps a toe could be dipped into the water with the help of the Devonian union and an attempt to host a professional event at Home Park in Plymouth.
Whatever the long term solution, the wheels of rugby move painfully slowly, and unfortunatly we are all aware that this is the case in Cornwall as much as anywhere. So the sooner the ideas are put forward, the sooner progress can be made.
From Bill Hooper (hooperhoo4ht@supanet.com)
The recent concerns expressed on the website concerning the future of the Cornish team are well-founded.
The downgrading of this season's County Championship to a straight knock out competition is evidence of this alarming trend. The question is why do the officers and the committee of the C.R.F.U. appear to accept this situation without question? The impact of a first round loss would not only be catastrophic for the supporters of the Cornwall team but also for the finance of the game in the county. No doubt at the forthcoming A.G.M. of the C.R.F.U. we will learn just how much effect last season’s cancelled championship had on the county coffers. The county, I contend, cannot allow this to happen too often, a defeat at Esher would be a body blow not just on the field but off it as well.
Rugby in Cornwall needs income to survive; its shop window is the County team. A successful county team playing more than one or two matches a season. Our Cornwall team needs a competition worthy of its name. If the R. F. U. choose to continually downgrade the county championship then the Cornwall team must look for a bigger pool to swim in, with, or without the assistance and support of the R.F.U. We need men of wisdom and vision at the helm, to steer the Cornwall team in a direction in which it will flourish. Many years ago the C.R.F.U. were bold enough to organise matches against foreign opposition such as France B (or the A team as it would be called now), Romania, and other touring sides. We need vision akin to this now to explore the possibilities of new and exciting competitions that a Cornwall side could play in.
The C.R.F.U. have a sub-committee for forward planning. Many of us are intrigued as to what they do! The C.R.F.U. have never been the most communicative body; the scant information on their website is hard-won by their webmaster, who does a masterful job under the circumstances. The last In Touch, their periodical newsletter on the web site, is dated May 2001! When it is produced its very good, and a good way to keep in touch (no pun intended) with the rugby public in Cornwall. The C.R.F.U. are, I believe, out of touch with supporters and the correspondence on this web site would seem to corroborate that fact.
The C.R.F.U. are always so pleased when the Army supports them, and we will be unstinting in our support for the boys in Black & Gold. However, I am dismayed at the lack of any official collaboration between the Army and the C.R.F.U. after all these years. We could offer them so much and in so many ways. We very rarely see any of their officers attending our committee meetings or asking our opinions, so the conclusion must be they aren’t interested. The abiding question must be Why not?
What do you all think?
As food for thought, here's a link to
FIRA/AER (the European Rugby Federation), which
organizes competitions that might well suit Cornwall..
This is what the author, John Gay, calls a pamphlet for discussion on the future of Cornish rugby in the modern era. It's in Adobe Acrobat PDF format. We encourage you to download, print, and distribute it: Saving Cornish Rugby (62KB)
From Will Coleman (bravetales@tesco.net)
Response to John Gay's visionary article; We are on the brink of exciting times for Cornwall. Not because Europe has recognised us as needy (in other words incapapable of sorting our own problems out)but because we are growing the confidence to claim back the control over our own future.
We will be needing more and more visionaries like John Gay to bring on the sort of future WE want - not passively reacting to someone else's script. John, don't let the "reality merchants" deter you - to bring about the dream of a Cornish national side in the way you suggest would mean a genuine and long-lasting impact to all of our lives.
It doesn't matter that it seems impractical (so is the idea of the largest greenhouse in the world, so was the idea of the steam locomotive before Trevithick). We have been too timid until now - remember we have something that is worth more than all the RFUs committees and league millions - we (local, resident, adopted..) are CORNISH!
"First they ignore you, Then they ridicule you, Then they fight you, and then you win." Mahatma Gandhi "Go for it my beauty..." Will Coleman
From Bill Hooper (hooperhoo4ht@supanet.com)
The following is written after much reflection of late, and to create a debate on the future of the senior Cornish side. This weekend sees Cornwall take on Devon in the annual Tamar cup match. It will once again be the only "friendly" game that Cornwall will play this season prior to the start of the championship on Easter Monday at Penzance. The appearance of the senior Cornwall side is nowadays almost confined to the cricket season at the end of a long season when many players are tired and in need of a break. They give of their best as they always have and will always do. The senior county championship has been moved and changed at a whim to accommodate the needs of the modern game in England. It is very clear that it is unloved by everyone but Cornwall. The Cornish team deserves better, it needs a competition worthy of its standing. Should Cornwall leave the R.F.U. and throw its lot in with F.I.R.A.? Probably not however it should not be totally dismissed. Should Cornwall join the proposed Celtic League? The prospect of regular competitive matches against Welsh club sides , Irish provinces (Cornwall vs. Munster what a prospect) and Scottish districts would provide regular matches during the season. Special dispensation would be required from the R.F.U. for this to take place ,would they be willing?To field a side in such a competition would require a great deal of planning and of course the favourite word in the game nowadays MONEY. The rich and proud heritage of the Cornwall rugby team demands that we the present players,supporters,and administrators do all that we can to preserve the unique standing of the Cornwall rugby team. If that means drastic change we must not shirk our collective responsibilities. I trust the above may provide for a constructive debate.
From John Gay (lucy.john@wanadoo.fr)
I find the recent correspondence regarding "Club Cornwall" interesting, but am I the only one who thinks we are missing the point here? What is it about supporting Cornwall that makes us different from other county's supporters? The answer is simple, because we are, like the Welsh, Scots, and Irish, of a Celtic background (and I include those naturalised by marriage, long-time residence etc!!) and proud to call ourselves CORNISH.
So why are our correspondents getting so het-up about trying to form some fancy club with some fancy name that has to start in Cornwall 2, unless we could get a franchise to start higher up etc.etc. FOCUS on the "raison d'être" of a Cornish rugby team. What is the point of it, and then you will perhaps see the way Cornish rugby HAS to go if it is to retain the values that has been at the core of firstly its playing strength and secondly its (world-wide) support base.
So what is the point of the Cornish rugby team and what are these values? The point is to play rugby against other repesentative teams using what the selectors consider to be the best team selection. The values that dictated this selection have been changed over the last 10 years or more years. Before the early eighties, the team was selected regardless of where players played their rugby. Since the national leagues were formed many of our best players have been prevented by the R.F.U. from playing for Cornwall. The important question is would "Club Cornwall' change this situation? Clearly it would not, as the best Cornish players would still continue to play for the top clubs who would pay them more. Therefore "Club Cornwall" does not fulfill the original values of selection to the Cornish team.
And what of supporters. Would they want to pay regular money to go and see a team that is not truly representatve of the best that Cornwall could offer? I think not. Would they even get the chance to see the top clubs in action? I would doubt that as well unless they could get into the top division but this would be unlikely without the likes of players already attracted to clubs in that division. Besides if supporters want to watch club rugby, they would rather go and watch their local side. I can't see people from Penzance or Launceston in their masses going to Redruth or Truro just to watch another club.
My own opinion is that all those concerned with Cornish rugby from administrators to players and supporters should look at a much bigger picture.
If the R.F.U do not want us, the Cornish R.F.U. should seriously consider pulling out of the R.F.U. altogether and setting themselves up as a proper rugby playing nation of its own, as the Welsh, Scots and Irish have done. Cornwall should seek to qualify for future rugby world cups and to position themselves for qualification for the Six Nations second division WHEN not if this comes into being.
Is any one telling me that Cornwall, with ALL its best players availiable to call upon for international duty could not at least match the likes of Spain, Portugal, Holland, Germany and even Romania to qualify for a world cup? And what more if we did like Wales and Scotland and dug up a few Cousin Jacks from down under!
I expect you all think this is a bit fanciful. Not a bit of it, I am deadly serious.
Here is a thought to leave you with. A friend of mine told me recently that Luxembourg play in the Belgian rugby leagues. They also attempt to qualify for rugby world cups. Are you getting my message?!
Think on folks!!
From Paul Kent (where_is_paul@hotmail.com)
On the issue of 'Club Cornwall', I think this is on the whole is a good idea as it would present the Duchy with a stage on which to positively promote its cultural identity through positive inclusion. Whatever your viewpoint on whether or not Kernow is part of England, I think that the region's people need a common focal point, and regular high profile matches against big teams would raise the profile of the sport and give people something to cheer about. It would be good if the likes of Penzance's Richard Hawkin could play at the highest level in his homeland, particularly if Cornwall became associated with sporting excellence rather than seasonal unemployment and retirement reservations. I mean the Catalans and Basques are fiercely proud of their Association Football teams playing in the Spanish League against the Castillian Spanish, and have used them as a platform to promoting both their language and culture to the outside world. Visca al Catalunya! Kernow bys vyken!
From BBC correspondent Nick Serpell
As someone who has reported on Cornish rugby for some years and commentated at three Twickenham finals, I would like to add a few thoughts to the messages on your website about Club Cornwall.
Like the proverbial cuckoo, the concept of Club Cornwall reappears every year but, to date, nothing has ever come of it. There are a number of reasons for this, not least the fierce parochialsim which pervades Cornish rugby. Differences, real or imagined, exist between Redruth and Camborne, Falmouth and Penryn, St Day and Stithians, the list is endless.
It is not as simple as just getting two or three of the top clubs to amalgamate. As a previous correspondent to your site has pointed out, the current league rules would mean that a new club had to start at the bottom of Cornwall League 2. hardly a good springboard for attracting the class of players we need. As things stand, the new club would have to adopt the name of an existing club to maintain the current league position. Who is likely to want to give up their own historic name and merge it elsewhere?
The only possible route is the franchise one but we have yet to see any clear indication of how this would be structured. Whatever the details, it would need a great deal of one thing, namely money. Ask any entrepreneur who has sunk cash into today's Premiership sides and they will tell you it has been a long hard road and most teams still do not turn a profit. Like it or not, money is the only way to success because without it you cannot attract the players. If we are talking about a new stadium and a new team then an initial investment in excess of £30 million would be required. I do not believe that even in Cornwall we would attract gates of a size to provide a return on that sort of money. The only viable option for a franchisee would be to buy control of an existing club and build it up. But would that club get the support of fans from rival teams. I think not.
We all know what has happened to the County Championship. I yield to no one in my love of the competition, which I have followed since I was a teenager. But we have to face facts. The RFU are keen to get rid of it in the long term and even the most diehard Cornish supporter knows that the competition does not get the support it used to. Last year's pool games had some of the lowest attendances I have seen at Cornwall matches. I realise many who turn up to cheer for Cornwall do so as much for a sense of national pride as a love of the game. Most of them are not in evidence on the touchlines of their local clubs during the rest of the year.
"Club Cornwall" is a great concept but the practicalities are enormous. Perhaps TASC could form a small working party to explore the possibilities. As it is, I fear that we will only see a true Club Cornwall when formations of pigs swoop low over Carn Brea.
Nick SerpellMany supporters seem to think that forming a 'Club Cornwall' would be a good idea. I could not disagree more. It is bad enough that Cornwall is forced to play in the English County Championship, when it is neither a county nor a part of England, but the thought of our National side being reduced to a mere club is too much to bear. As for naming a proposed new stadium after Trelawny, Oh Please! Don't you people realise what he was. He was a bishop of the Church of England, which was instrumental in forcing the English book of prayer onto Cornwall thus effectively destroying our language. In the resulting rebellion 10% of Cornwall's population (or one in five of the male population) was killed, and many dreadful atrocities took place. For a Cornishman to be a Bishop of this insidious organisation is akin to a Bosnian serving in the Serb army.
Cliff StephensThe following article by Don Rutherford, the RFU's Director of Rugby, appeared in the September issue of "In Touch in Cornwall", the newsletter of the C.R.F.U.
You could be forgiven for thinking that the world of rugby has gone mad over the last 12 months. Private differences have been publicly aired and the sooner the season begins, the sooner an air of normality will appear to return. I use the word "appear" quite deliberately because the game will never be the same again. Professionalism is now official and with it will come attitudes many of which will be alien to long serving rugby folk. To the young all will be normal. For exceptional players, being paid to play, having a career in rugby will be no different from any other career except it will be much shorter. For others, and they will be in the majority, it will remain their recreation.
The new order touches everyone and Cornwall with its passion and long tradition in the game has to embrace these changes or become an outpost, a backwater, and worse still an exporter of playing talent. I profoundly hope that parochialism will not win out and that the worldly views and experience of Cornish men and women will be harnessed to provide a united front and a team that seeks to compete in Division One/Two of the English Leagues.
What is he talking about? I hear you ask. As a player I thoroughly enjoyed county football in the South West group, it had a vibrancy unsurpassed and playing at Redruth was an unforgettable experience. It was also an important part of the national selection process from which I benefited but times have changed. Although many don't want to hear this, I'm afraid you may have to forget the County Championship as a major force. Unless something totally unforeseen happens its glory days are over and those who made the long trek to Twickenham in the early 1990's should cherish those days and store them in their memory banks. They are treasures worth remembering -- I know I was there! The recent visit by Helston in the final of the Junior Clubs Competition remains a possibility in the future but statistically it's unlikely. I would suggest that these views are not those of a pessimist but a realist.
Realism and looking outwards and forwards is something that we've embraced at England level having turned to the world of athletics (1986 Tom McNab) to galvanise our players to embrace the need for greater fitness. In 1996, the new fitness creed is "power" and again we've turned to athletics by using the knowledge of Carl Johnson and Paul Dickenson, both National Athletics Coaches. Rugby wise I've brought in Bill Freeman, Lee Smith and Maurice Trapp from New Zealand and Pierre Villepraux from France. The results speak for themselves and I'm very proud of the way England players have responded to new ideas.
If Cornish rugby wishes to embrace the changes underway "up country" or on the wider world stage it will need to seek a prophet(s) from outside the county to harness its enthusiasm, spirit and sheer passion for the game. In my time I've seen and played with and against outstanding Cornish players like Bonzo Johns, Stack Stephens, Richard Sharp, Mike Luke, Roger Hosen, Ken Plummer all progenitors of the modern Graham Dawe, Martin Haag, Ian Sanders, Phil Vickery, Ricky Pellow and others. Wouldn't it be marvellous to watch a combined Cornish team, the product of all Cornish clubs coming together on a regular basis and representing the county on the national stage. It won't be achieved by one club - no club has the resources. Eating red apples in Camborne or green ones in Redruth will have to become reality. Charles Causley summed up the magic and power of Cornwall in these few words "all Cornwall thunders at my door".
Let's add some lightning to Charles Causley's thunder. Why not harness the talent of local players, bring together successful Cornish businessmen, Local Authorities and the Duke of Cornwall in an ambitious forward plan to put Cornwall on the rugby map and on to the National scene.
Why not create a Cornwall plc or Super Club? The projected University for Cornwall at Penzance destined to begin at the turn of the century will bring talented students, talented staff and access to sports science, factors that also play a significant part in future developments. If the rugby world has gone mad in the last 12 months, let's join them and run a fully professional combined Cornish club team which everyone can be proud of.
The time to plan, prepare and keep "in touch" is now.
Don Rutherford